The Full Transcript
Kristin Hayes: Hello, and welcome to Resources Radio, a weekly podcast from Resources for the Future. I’m your host, Kristin Hayes. Today’s episode is the first in a multipart series on electric vehicles (EVs). The motivation for putting together this series is highly personal. I just got my very first EV in January 2024 and rapidly became obsessed with all things electric vehicles. I’m still in that phase where I want to give everyone rides, and I really want to learn everything there is to know about this new world that I’ve entered here.
Boy, honestly, it really is a new world. I think I knew my next car purchase was going to be electric, but I’ll be honest, I didn’t do as much homework on the practicalities of owning an EV as I’m realizing probably would’ve been helpful. I’m opting to kick off this series with an episode titled “Demystifying EV Ownership” and consolidating some of the many questions that I personally have asked in the past six weeks or so and getting answers to them from someone in the know.
In this case, that someone is Sebastian Blanco, who is a veteran automotive and technology journalist who is currently the editor-in-chief at SAE Media Group, which was formerly known as the Society of Automotive Engineers. I’m going to crib from his bio here for just a second. His articles and reviews, many of which are focused on the transition to electric vehicles, hybrids, and hydrogen-fueled vehicles, have appeared in the New York Times, Automotive News, and a number of other outlets that I won’t go into. He also served as editor-in-chief of AutoblogGreen for 11 years. Handily, he’s also an EV owner himself. He’s a great candidate to talk me through this demystifying of EV ownership. I’m really looking forward to Sebastian’s insights. I hope this episode really does help demystify ownership, at least to some degree, for folks who might be thinking about it.
One more thing I’ll say is, if you find that there are questions you wish I had asked and we had answered but didn’t, please feel free to share them by emailing [email protected]. We may even be able to get to some additional answers on our blog at Resources.org.
Finally, my last note is, if EVs aren’t your thing, don’t worry. Never fear. We will return to our broader selection of topics in just a few weeks, but for now, I’m really excited to start this series in style. Stay with us.
Hi, Sebastian. Welcome to Resources Radio.
Sebastian Blanco: Hi, Kristin. Great to be with you today.
Kristin Hayes: Great. Well, I have never recorded an episode that’s quite as personally relevant as this one, and I’m obviously very excited to chat with you today. But before we talk about all things EV, I’d really love to start by asking how your journalism career came to focus on alternative fuel vehicles in the first place.
Sebastian Blanco: Well, it’s a story of a random friend suggesting many, many years ago that I submit an application to the AutoblogGreen site you mentioned. I’ve been a freelance writer since I was back in high school. I’m now way, way out of high school. For a while there, in the early 2000s, I was living in Athens, Georgia, and writing for the local magazine there, and a friend was like, “You’ve got to check out these blogs. They’re the newest thing, you should do it.” He was doing a daddy blog at the time, and I was like, “Okay, I’ll check into it.” I applied for an Apple site, applied for a green-car site, did maybe a few other ones, and that was the era when you could, without too much knowledge, start to work for an automotive blog. Ever since then, it’s been the daily ins and outs of learning this industry—understanding what it is that makes not only EVs work, but also makes EV drivers work.
To that point, I’m really excited to hear how you, even now in 2024, are so excited about EVs, because that is something I have seen people realize over and over again for almost 20 years now, and other people who’ve been in it longer have seen it for well over 20 years. It is a thing that happens when someone gets an EV—not everyone of course, but there is an excitement; there’s an energy. It’s like, “We can do this differently.” To hear that you’re experiencing that even after someone like me is a little bit jaded on the whole thing—I’m still very pro EV, but I’ve seen that before—it’s really great to hear that the new generation is ready and raring to go for electric vehicles.
Kristin Hayes: That’s awesome. That’s very affirming, because I’ll be honest, I have felt a little bit … I used the word “obsessed” before, and I’m going to use it again. I’m going to use that word carefully, but maybe I’m a little too into it.
Let me just tell you for one minute about this vehicle that I purchased. It’s a used 2021 Hyundai Kona Electric. It’s called Vanilla Ice. That’s right: it has a name. I spent a fair amount of time searching around. It has been deeply fulfilling. But one thing I was very cognizant of as a shopper in 2024 is that I had more of a choice of electric vehicle models than I would’ve had even a few years ago. I think that’s an important starting place—just to understand the landscape of choice that’s out there. So, let me ask you, how many EV models are currently for sale in the United States, and how is that set to change over the next few years?
Sebastian Blanco: It looks like the numbers obviously keep changing between what is coming, what was announced, what is here, and what isn’t here. But for example, Car and Driver has a great list of all the cars that are available sometime in 2024, not just today. They could be coming later in the year. But that number stands at about 55. So, we’re well over 50, with many dozen different options.
Sometimes, that’s just sort of a model—like, the Rivian has basically the same truck and SUV. One is a truck, one is an SUV, but everything else about it is very similar: the powertrains, things like that. Sometimes, you get a wide spread of options, but there’s about 55ish that you could go and buy in some form as a new EV today.
Kristin Hayes: You mentioned Rivian. I want to ask you one thing, just based on that, too. Are there some car companies that have really started with electric vehicles at their foundation? It seems like some of those models … Clearly, Hyundai is a brand that makes more than just electric vehicles, but I think Rivian only makes electric vehicles, is that right?
Sebastian Blanco: Correct. There’s a number of EV-only automakers, Tesla being the most famous one, because that’s the one that … If anybody thinks of an electric vehicle, that’s what they think of. That was really the first successful new automotive brand in the United States in forever, it seems like. Everybody points to DeLorean as the last big attempt.
The history of automotive brands in the United States is very varied, especially if you go back over a hundred years. The electric vehicle era is giving new companies that chance. Rivian was one, Fisker is one, Karma Automotive—some of these names that have been trying for a long time to do this or that. You have Bollinger Motors—they do more commercial vehicles now, after trying to work on some passenger trucks or passenger SUVs. You have VinFast in Vietnam. They made internal combustion vehicles for a short while; now, they’re EV only. There’s many Chinese EV-only brands.
The change from gas to electricity as a power source in vehicles has not only changed what’s possible to put in a car, but also what kind of cars or car companies can exist right now, because people weren’t trying this when it was all gas engines.
Kristin Hayes: Right. That’s interesting. I think that’s a really important foundational piece of information, too, is that suddenly we’re going to have a different choice of models, but we’re also going to have a different choice of companies. I’m sure that’s going to take some getting used to for consumers. That requires a different level of trust building and a different level of understanding. So, that is very good to know.
The next thing I wanted to ask you—at the same time that I was researching vehicle choices, I was also researching home-charger choices. I just want to acknowledge that I am incredibly fortunate that I have the space to actually install a home charger. I realized that’s actually a huge hurdle for a lot of people, but in my case I was able to look into that. That quickly took me into the world of what’s referred to as Level 1, 2, and 3 charging. I bet those terms are pretty familiar to anyone who’s notionally interested, but I’m curious if you could just talk us through what Level 1, 2, and 3 really means.
Sebastian Blanco: First off, let’s pretend Level 3 is not a thing. It’s obviously something you came across. It’s a phrase people use. But if you want to be more technical for some reason, they refer to them as Level 1, Level 2, and then all of these so-called Level 3s are actually direct current (DC) fast charging. It’s a terminology thing. People, for some reason … It’s easier, right? 1, 2, 3. Why don’t we just do it? For some reason we don’t. But whatever, for the sake of conversation, we can use Level 3. People understand what you’re talking about. But when you get into technical details, people use DC fast charging; they appreciate that.
But for everyone who’s learning about these for the first time, Level 1 is your home outlet. The same thing you charge your phone with, the same thing you plug your toaster into. Any home outlet is Level 1. You can probably imagine if you’re trying to charge a car that is not the way to do it. It takes almost forever. We won’t say literally forever, because that’s the wrong use of the word, but it takes a long, long time, to the point that for most cars, you plug them in, and if it’s plugged in for an hour, you’ll probably see four to five miles of additional range on your battery. It takes just days and days to refill today’s modern packs.
Level 2 is what you’re talking about with your home charger. It can also be out in public. These are incredibly common nowadays, depending on where you are. They are 240-volt outlets or 220-volt outlets. They’re basically the same thing that you might have in an electric clothes dryer or power tools out in your garage. Anything that’s sort of a little higher level, but it’s something electricians are incredibly familiar with. They install them all the time. In Europe, that’s just the general power source coming out of the wall. They have a whole different section over there.
But for North America, where Level 2 is sort of the standard and what we think of as a normal charger: They’re not too expensive. They’re pretty much everywhere. This really depends on your own panel or the voltage and the charger that’s built into the car—the charging unit itself. But you could probably expect anywhere between 15 and 25ish miles of additional range per hour of charging. Those are the kinds of things that are really useful at shopping centers, movie theaters, overnight hotels—anywhere where you’re going to be for a while, and the car will basically be ready to go when you’re done.
Level 3, or DC fast charging, are the big expensive units that are out there. This is more of your, “We’re on the highway, we need to keep going, where can we get a quick charge and then get on our way?” Again, the details really depend on what EV you’re talking about. I should have looked this up for your Kona so I could give you specific advice.
But basically, depending on the highest acceptable charge rate that the car can handle, which for some might be 50 kilowatts, but for some of the newer, more high-power ones, that gets into 350 kilowatts. Some of them tap out in the middle; they’re about 150 kilowatts. Those cars will add roughly up to 80 percent of your battery’s total capacity in a given time. That depends on what the automaker says, but it’s 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 40 minutes—something along those lines. Usually, let’s say about half an hour gets you 100, 150 miles. It all kind of depends on the system. There’s too many variables to know for sure. But basically, you can stop, get a quick break, and be able to drive for a few hours. That’s the short version of Level 1, 2, and so-called 3.
Kristin Hayes: Okay, that’s great. One of the reasons that I wanted to make this a series in the first place is because I had so many more questions about batteries and range. We actually have a whole other episode on batteries. I’m very tempted to ask you more detailed questions right now. Same thing with chargers, because I know that the availability of that infrastructure is really critical, but I’m going to hold my tongue. I’m going to ask our listeners to bear with me and wait for those deep-dive episodes on batteries and on kind of the charging infrastructure. But that is a great overview. We’ll have a chance to talk a little bit more about that in subsequent weeks.
For now, I did want to ask about charging prices. You mentioned, for example, that the DC fast charging is very … Those are expensive units. I would assume it costs more to charge. In fact, I know it costs more to charge at those kind of fast-charging stations. But talk to me about how the prices compare overall between home charging and charging elsewhere. I’m sure it depends on everyone’s individual utility rates. I feel like there’s a lot of complication in electric charging pricing that doesn’t necessarily exist in gasoline stations. It feels much less transparent to me. I’m hoping you can just sort of talk about the pricing structures a little bit.
Sebastian Blanco: I want to answer that in two ways. First off, on a much higher level, let’s sort of deconstruct what you just said, because you’re 100 percent right, but the reason that you think those things—that gas prices are transparent—is because of the infrastructure that exists for gas engines today, which did not exist 100 years ago at the start of the gas-engine car. If you think of EV infrastructure being at the beginning of its journey and the gas infrastructure being closer to the end than to the beginning, you’re getting that price information from the signs as you drive down the street, because the infrastructure is set up that way. We could easily do that with EVs if we wanted to. We wouldn’t have to put them on signs, we could put them on apps or something like that.
But the two systems are just at completely separate stages of their development, so it’s difficult to compare. But I totally get what you’re saying: we live in a gas-powered world. Everything is sort of geared to make that clear to the drivers and to us. If you spend a little bit of time learning what the different numbers are that you might see on the US Environmental Protection Agency website or somewhere else, the Monroney that comes with your car, it’ll make as much sense as this weird number “miles per gallon (MPG)” might make if you had not spent the last number of decades learning what that means and understanding that a higher MPG number is better, right? We know these things because the infrastructure has set it up that way.
That’s the high overview. Now, we get into some of the details. I need to do that, because if we say MPG, people know what it means. But if I say kilowatt-hour per 100 miles, that doesn’t mean nearly as much to people. That’s what you’re getting at. It seems like it’s not as transparent, and you’re right; it’s harder to find exactly how much these things cost. But once we know a few things, we can then demystify, as the podcast says, what that all means.
A quick detour here: A kilowatt-hour is basically a measure of energy used over time. That’s how utilities sell you your energy. I went to the US Energy Information Administration and looked up the most recent national averages, so this came from December 2023. Nationwide, that average for 1 kilowatt-hour is 15.73 cents. Let’s just say 15, 16 cents. We don’t need to get the exact details, but the point is that’s roughly where you’re at. Now, in New England, that number is closer to 27.5. In the northern Midwest, it’s closer to 12. The range is super different, depending on where you live in the country. But this is what the Energy Information Administration says is the nationwide average. Let’s go with that.
If you’re paying almost 16 cents for a kilowatt-hour, now you know how much that’s going to cost to fill up your battery, because batteries are given to you as the end user with their kilowatt-hour capacity. If it’s a 60 kilowatt-hour pack, you can say, “Okay, 16 cents times 60 kilowatt-hours,” boom. That’s how much it’ll cost you to fill your pack. This is all just assuming that you’re charging at home using the home rate that the EIA here is talking about. This is not at a public charging station. We’ll get to those in a second. But basically, again, I should have looked up your Kona.
But I looked up the most popular EV that was sold last year, which was a Tesla Model Y. If you go on the US Environmental Protection Agency website, they say that car (this is the long-range, all-wheel-drive version) requires 28 kilowatt-hours to go 100 miles. If we break up all the stuff that we needed, what that means is you need to pay that 16 cents 28 times to go 100 miles. I did the math already. It’s about $4.40. On a nationwide average, if we take the most popular EV last year and the general average of US electricity costs, that car will go 100 miles on under $4.50.
With public charging, that can vary. Maybe you’ve discovered this as a new EV driver, too: there are plenty of free Level 2 chargers out there if you can find them. That changes all the math, right? Now, someone else is paying for it. Maybe they want you to come to their store, so you get the free charger. Maybe they’re a hotel that’s like, “Hey, we offer this benefit to our guests.” For whatever reason, there’s a lot of free Level 2 charging out there.
Sometimes, it costs money. Then, usually, it’s not that much higher than whatever average; in this case, nationwide, that’s 16 cents a kilowatt-hour. They’ll charge you a little bit more, because it costs more, but these chargers are plentiful. They’re not always in use. You can usually find one, and they’re not going to be too expensive.
But you’re right that the DC fast chargers, which cost a lot more to install, take a lot more energy, and those also can cost quite a bit. Then that, “Nice, now we’re going 100 miles on $4.50″—that math completely changes, and it might cost you $8 or something to go 100 miles. The cost could be … I would say doubled is not an unreasonable expectation when you’re using a DC fast charger. But again, you’re able to do it while you’re on the road and make your road trip. Most people—and you can speak to this with your personal experience—don’t use DC fast charging that often. There are exceptions, of course, but most people can rely more on the lower-cost Level 2 charging, which is sometimes free, to fill up their EV, versus relying on expensive DC fast charging all the time.
Kristin Hayes: That’s incredibly helpful. I’m planning my very first road trip of more than two hours and have been scouting out charging options. I definitely want to talk to you more about how you locate charging options in the first place. But really quickly on this point—some of the DC fast chargers that I’ve been looking at to get from here to see the eclipse in Ohio, they’re about 45 cents a kilowatt-hour. It’s between two and three times, let’s say, kind of what you would pay at home. But as you pointed out, there’s a real benefit there, which is the speed at which they can actually get your car going back on the road. It’s interesting to note all that.
This is a great lead into my next question, which is about how one locates charging options. Particularly, I think a lot of the newer EVs at least have the functionality built into them to actually locate the charging stations directly. That’s actually in the computer guts of the car.
But there’s also, you mentioned this briefly, this huge wide world of EV apps on smartphones, and that’s really what I relied on. I drove to Richmond for my first mini road trip just two weekends ago, and it was fascinating. I relied on apps. Sometimes, they sent me to free stations; sometimes, they sent me to ones at museums that wanted me to go to the museum and spend some time there. I was able to choose a hotel for example, that had a Level 2 station in the parking lot. That was all information that I was able to glean just by looking at these apps on my phone. Talk me through that universe a little bit.
Sebastian Blanco: You said you’re going to have many podcasts about the EV universe. This is definitely one that could be its own podcast in and of itself. Why is it this way? You can understand if you know the history. So many choices were made at different times, but it’s a hot mess. Everybody knows that.
Kristin Hayes: It’s kind of overwhelming, yeah.
Sebastian Blanco: Let’s start with people who don’t want to listen to the whole answer. If you got an EV and you just want to get an app that will help you, I personally use PlugShare. They sort of look at numerous networks. Because the charging companies—the people who went and installed these units or licensed them to the people who have them at their hotels or whatever and run the back end and information stuff—say, “Well, we installed this. We control this unit, so this is part of our network.” Then, there’s all these different networks everywhere. So, you want to find an app, and like I said, I use PlugShare.
Another option is Flow. You can say what you use, and people can share their own apps. There’s many of them, but they allow you to search across networks. Again, like you said, you were able to find free ones.
The one reason that I’m a big fan of PlugShare is it has really good filtering options to let you find, “Okay, I need a fast charger, or I want one that’s free, or I don’t mind paying, or I need a particular connector,” because we haven’t gotten into that, but different EVs have different connectors. One of the things that I really like about PlugShare is that it allows people to check in different ways.
Infrastructure today is not as reliable as it needs to be. Whatever app you use, try to find one that other people are also using, and they will hopefully alert you if a charger is broken, so you don’t make the drive over there and find that you can’t use it. If you have an EV, and you’re charging, and you use an app that has user comments, go ahead and submit a report: “Hey, this is working. This is what car I have. It worked great.” “This one’s broken. The handle needs work. I couldn’t contact customer service.” Whatever it is. As we’re still in this slightly early era of EVs, unfortunately this is what we have to do. It has to be sort of a little bit of a crowdsourced universe to make it work smoother.
But find an app that looks across networks and, hopefully, has user comments. That would be my recommendation. For example, if you bought a new car—this doesn’t work with used EVs—a lot of new EVs come with a certain amount of free charging on a particular network. Of course, go ahead and use that at the beginning, right? Really get to know how that network works. Rely on that app and use those credits that the automaker included with the purchase of your car in order to really experience what you can do. But don’t be afraid to go outside the network when you need to. Sometimes that’s easy. You just have to use your credit card. Sometimes you have to sign up ahead of time on an app. It’s a bit of a mess, like I said. Hopefully, this gets sorted out in the coming years, but I’ve heard that for many, many years, and it hasn’t quite gotten there yet. Those are some of the things.
I would also throw in a pitch for the Alternative Fuels Data Center. That is a government website. I think the US Department of Energy runs it. It doesn’t really have a lot of that granular information about users checking and things like that, but it does include so many more chargers that don’t always show up on other apps, and it’s a good secondary resource to have. “Hey, I’m in this new area, I don’t see any chargers on my apps around here. Let’s check out what the Department of Energy says,” because there may have been one that was installed a number of years ago that just didn’t get added to anything, because it wasn’t part of a network at the time, but it might still be able to charge your car.
Kristin Hayes: And that’s what counts.
Sebastian Blanco: Exactly. That’s what you need when you’re out there. A good app and the Alternative Fuels Data Center should get you where you need to go.
Kristin Hayes: That’s great. I hear you on why a whole episode of just focusing on that world … I think that may actually be in the cards, because it is a whole world, for sure.
Sebastian, I had a feeling this would happen. I know I’m going to run out of time before I get to ask you everything I want to ask you, so let me throw out just a few more things. I’ll kind of do them in rapid fire, and then you can take them as you would like. But let me throw out a few of the other questions that had come to mind for me. One was about—and this was actually based on a hot tip from a colleague about best practices in charging behavior. I thought, Well, okay, you find a plug, you plug it in. That’s the best practice in charging behavior. But I think there are actually best practices. I wanted to ask you about that frequency, how full or empty to have your battery.
I’d love to ask a question about maintenance and how different is the maintenance. One thing that I noticed when I got my car is that the sticker that I got for inspections basically says, “This car never needs to be inspected again,” because I don’t have emissions testing anymore, and it didn’t even really occur to me. I don’t have pistons anymore, so how does the maintenance differ?
Then, maybe the last thing I’ll throw at you is about range, and it’s about driver choices. I’ve witnessed how some of my own choices can really affect the remaining range that I have, prominently posted and available to me for my battery. Let me just get specific. It’s February. When I turn on the heat in my car, what is listed as the remaining range can drop by 50 miles, which is kind of a bummer. I know there have been issues in really cold weather and things like that. What else should we know about driver behavior and range? You can tell that I’m drowning in questions. I will let you answer any of that that you would like.
Sebastian Blanco: I’ll try to give you an answer for all three, and I will do it as quickly as I can, just hitting some highlights. What’s interesting about the fact that the range odometer—basically, the remainder of the range number—drops so precipitously in the winter is because it just takes more energy from the battery to heat you. There’s no wasted energy in a gas engine to provide heat to the cabin, so that really does make a difference.
What’s interesting is gas engines and diesel engines are also much less efficient when it’s cold out. We just have so much excess energy, because we just pump liquid fuel in there, that we don’t notice it. But the efficiency losses affect both EVs and gas-engine vehicles the same in the winter. It’s something to note. We just haven’t thought about it as much, because we weren’t as worried.
But yeah, in the winter, you’ve got to be more careful. You’ve got to think through a little bit more where you’re going to go. Most EVs, for most people, you should be fine. But on road trips, that really is going to make a difference in the cold, which brings us to the other topic on just sort of range anxiety. That’s a real thing, but the things we talked about with the apps and making sure that the stations are there. You can trust these numbers even though you saw that the remainder of the range number dropped. That’s a good thing, because the car is accurately telling you as best as it can, “Hey, if you keep driving the way you’re driving right now, this is how many miles I can take you.” Range anxiety shouldn’t be as big of a thing, because the car is telling you this is what you have left.
Then, as far as tips on how to charge and take care of your car, I would say there’s sort of two sides to that. There’s the private side when you’re charging at home, and then there’s the public charging. If you’re at home and on a regular schedule, one thing that I do with my personal EV is … It’s a Chevy Bolt, and it has the option to set your target charge level. I usually charge it to only 80 percent full, because just like any battery, whether it’s your laptop, your phone, or your car, the battery doesn’t love to be at full charge all the time. It just kind of makes the electrodes and the anodes and everything unhappy. Leave it at 88 percent, and you give them a little bit of space to fluctuate, and that helps the battery live longer. Although when it’s cold out, I will charge it to 100 percent, and I’ll say, “Whatever. I need extra range, because it’s February.” I don’t worry about it. It’s just when I have the opportunity that I turn it down.
Then, some ideas of etiquette at a public charging station. Don’t leave your car charged in when you’re done. Have a plan to go get it and get out of there. DC fast charging over time is not as good for a battery as the slower Level 1 or Level 2 charging, so I would minimize that whenever possible. It does contribute to battery health.
Then, you’re right, the overall maintenance on an EV is very low. The joke is always that you’ve got to change the wiper blades. You have the brake pads. The brake pads usually need to be replaced less because you’re using regenerative braking more, so you’re saving money there. You might have to pay a little bit more for tires. The EVs are often heavier than a traditional gas car of a similar size, so they just wear out a little bit faster, especially if you’re the kind of person who’s like, “Hey, this instant acceleration of the electric motor really is something I want to enjoy,” and you just kind of do a lot of quick starts. Obviously, that’s going to take a little bit of a wear and tear on the tires. But if you’re saving all the money compared to gas when you fill up, you have otherwise reduced maintenance, and I think it’s okay to have a little bit of fun in your EV even if you got to replace the tires maybe a week earlier than you would otherwise have to.
Kristin Hayes: That’s also very affirming, because I will say I’ve definitely taken advantage of that, so yeah.
Sebastian Blanco: Exactly. It’s hard not to.
Kristin Hayes: That was such a great response to so many questions in a row, and I really appreciate it. This has been such a great grounding for the beginning of the series for our listeners. I really wish I had known all this two weeks ago, six weeks ago, but this is great. I really appreciate it.
Let me close the podcast with our Top of the Stack closing feature. I’d love to hear more from you about other good content that you’d want to recommend. It can be on this topic, it can be on others, but let me just ask you. Sebastian, what’s on the top of your stack?
Sebastian Blanco: Well, I picked some things that fit in with this topic, not just to go totally into my love of Pearl Jam, although if anybody wants to talk Pearl Jam, we can do that on a different episode. These are for EV people, and I came up with two.
One is just about general electric vehicle news and information and really clear insight into things. These are both YouTube channels, but I believe they have podcasts, as well. One is called Transport Evolved; my friend Nikki runs that one and does great work. The other, if you’re more into chargers and charging and how to take care of batteries and how to maximize battery life, is State of Charge, another one on YouTube. My friend Tom does that one. Both of those resources … If you’re into EVs, you owe it to yourself to check those people out. They will make you smarter and be a much better EV driver and owner and really get into what these cars are capable of.
Kristin Hayes: That is awesome. Well, it has been a pleasure. I really appreciate your taking the time. It’s been just a great start to the series, and I really appreciate your insights.
Sebastian Blanco: No problem, Kristin. Great to speak with you.
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